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Post by Vince on May 21, 2004 1:46:36 GMT -5
Hey guys, I'm involved in a discussion on wristlocks on a different forum and I thought I'd share my take on it with ya'll.
Here's my take on wristlocks, for anyone who cares. For them to really work against someone that is resisting 100% you would have to go for it 100%, with determination to just snap the wrist. If your idea is to put on some pain and force them to fall in a certain direction, well untrained people dont understand which way to move to get out of many joint locks and will either fight it and escape or just get their own wrist broken. This is a serious training problem, you cant really train them 100% without injuring your partner.
Now I'm talking about wristlock takedowns here, not wristlocks used on the ground to lead to a tap out. When you have your opponent on the ground it's a completely different story; you can immobolize them with the ground and your other limbs much easier than when your standing, so you can force them to tap out.
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getgoin
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Post by getgoin on May 23, 2004 7:04:59 GMT -5
I agree, they fall into the same catogory as small joint manipulation for me. I can't see people flying through the air with because of a wrist lock or begging for forgivness because you have two of his fingers. I heard a phrase by Tony Cecchine and I beleive that it is the best way to approach things of this nature, it's "snap no tap". Another words just break something and worry about the agressor later.
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Post by Vince on May 23, 2004 20:19:00 GMT -5
I agree, the "snap no tap" philosophy does seem to be most ideal suited for wristlock application. I do see their useage in other less serious incidents, such as escorting suspects by police officers or restraining people that arent resisting 100%.
I wish there was a good way to train them full speed. Like a realistic training dummy whose wrists you could break and re-break over and over.
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getgoin
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Post by getgoin on May 24, 2004 6:59:57 GMT -5
I wish there was a good way to train them full speed. Like a realistic training dummy whose wrists you could break and re-break over and over. That would be cool. Like one of those rebreakable boards, that could come with something like to green man from II sports.
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Dave
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Post by Dave on May 21, 2005 18:46:13 GMT -5
Wrist locks are a big part of police Defensive Tactics. The big problems I have found with teaching wrist locks and with police using them is that many/most people police encounter are either drunk or under the influence of drugs and don't respond to pain or the person does some type of work that makes his wrists and hands the strongest part of his body. Mechanics, tree surgeons, construction workers, etc. have wrists and hand strength that is sometimes out of proportion to the rest of their body. Wrist locks can be effective, but when someone with little training (except DT) uses one and finds it is ineffective in that situation, it can cause the person to lose confidence in everything he/she has been shown. Good topic, I hope I can learn from this one.
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danny
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Post by danny on Feb 23, 2006 6:15:36 GMT -5
Hi guys Dan here . you can train wrist locks full on up to the point of lock. but its pritty pointless . reason i say that is because when you are fighting or being thretend in some way we have this thing called tunnel vision im sure that most of you would have had this by now. this is when you can see the punch coming but your reactions are to slow (i can explain more if needed) anyhow when we train in a dojo there is no thret deep down you know thet your training partner is'nt going to damage you with intent. this is why training for real wrist locks will never realy work you can train for speed,focus,power but you can not train for the unexpected . Dan "no no i just take out the trash"
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Post by GrapplersGuildKs on Mar 5, 2006 11:47:36 GMT -5
As a Law Enforcement officer, and experienced in subduing resisting individuals who dont want to go to jail, I have learned that wrist locks are probably not going to do the job. I have alot of experience and training in joint locking methods, and I would rarely ever use one on a subject. Armlocks however, are a different story. A properly executed armlock will control the shoulders and then the hips as you move them into a cuffing position. (I also favor guillotine chokes when they do the redneck rush towards your waist.)(Just sprawl and lock, and splat....! I have used these on the street, and they work well for me. But I do agree that alot of wrist lock techniques are being taught to a pa*sive training partner...I.E. "Grab My Wrist" Using Armbars and Arm Locks seem to work. Be Safe JWB
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Post by winston on Mar 13, 2006 16:04:34 GMT -5
I like to think that I am pretty good at wristlocks.
I think that they can be done and practiced without injury. It really depends on the particular lock. Some need to be done in a ballistic way for them to work. Others do not (but can be).
I think that you have to get your mechanics down and develop feel for what is going on in the opponents body. And that only comes with extensive practice and for some that may never come. I have friends that have been doing ju jitsu for years that have not developed that feel.
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Post by victorparlati on Mar 14, 2006 13:16:25 GMT -5
Good thread. Gotta agree with the idea that when on the ground going for a wristlock type of submission - you have more control over his body than when standing...and when standing it's best to go for some sort of armlock/elbow lock that also attacks his shoulder, etc...
but there is ONE standing wristlock that I have found useful...at certain times.
It can be used to subdue someone after blocking or deflecting his straight punch (cannot be used against a hook or uppercut)....and you must be on the outside of his arm with your parrying/blocking/deflecting hand...(ie.- your left hand is contacting the outside of his straight right punch somwhere near his elbow...then sliding down and grabbing his wrist...and now using two hands to bend his joint - with most of your left hand on his wrist but your thumb spread across the outside of his hand...and completely supported by your right hand (you make a T-SHAPE with both your thumbs - your right thumb overlapping your left thumb)....bend, twist, pull up, over, down and to the outside...and he should go down...your job is not over at this point - but you're on your way.
All that said...it's hard to get in most punching situations (he's moving his arms too fast)...but against a straight knife thrust - it's a bit more high percentage....ALTHOUGH all unarmed defenses against a knife attack are at a major disadvantage to begin with.
(Can also be used against a one arm attempt to push you - as this almost simulates a straight knife thrust attack).
Requires some nice side stepping footwork as well.
All in all...not a high percentage move...but good to know in certain situations.
BTW...if he manages to lock his wrist before you can bend and manipulate it - a short, quick, but hard kick with the foot corresponding with your hand directly on his wrist (ie.- your left foot in this example)...a kick with your heel into his ribs should create enough shock to unlock his wrist - and you can continue the move. (Make sure that the knee corresponding to your kick is NOT directly in line with your foot - it should be to the outside - as this shortens the length of the kick...exactly what you need when kicking someone while holding one of their arms).
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