We see many times in tournament play, where a person will either sit down, or be down and just try to "invite" the opponent down into his guard. Question is, what do you do? What is the best approach? Should you go for the leg lock because the leg is right there? Should you try to set up some kind of pa*s?
In general what is the higher percentage move, pa*s attempt, or leg lock (as opposed to just going into his guard).
And what techniques do you think work the best in that situation?
That situation is the bastard child of someone who's more interested in success in a sport than in finding what works best in a real fight, and who is not well rounded enough to have takedowns.
Ughh, anyway, when someone does that I wouldn't play their guard game just on principle. I can't say pa*s or take a leg, because it will just depend on the specific situation. Take the best thing your being offered. If they are just sticking a leg up mindlessly, thinking you will just voluntarily sit into their guard, then a leglock submission would be hilarious and appropriate. If they are trying to protect their legs then it might be more appropriate to fight to pa*s. It's a good idea to mix leglock attempts with pa*sing attempts, as they are hard to defend at the same time.
I also like something that Gokor does when he has opened a guard. He'll keep his front knee up and sit on his front foot, squatting low and wide on his other knee. It's impossible to pull someone into your guard or catch guard submissions when they are doing this correctly. It frustrates the guard puller because they are so close, but so far away from guard and it forces them to keep their guard open, which is then just begging to be pa*sed or leglocked.
Awesome post Vince....the "Bastard Child" remark was cla*sic!
I was trying to imagine what you were describing Gokor doing but i couldn't. Can you "re-explain" that part when he is squatting with one knee up? Are you trying to say that he is kind of squatting on his "haunches" with both feet on the ground and weight on the balls of the feet, but with one knee up in the middle and the other under the opponents thigh? Kind of a squat in the middle?
Also, How about a "hanging leg lock" type of sub attempt. If the opponent is in a "sitting guard". Grab the opponents left shin/lower leg (or whichever leg is protruding more), with your right arm. Then pull it hard up into the air and latch onto it by curling your arm. Now with your left foot you step on his inner thigh of the opposite leg and hold it down by putting your weight on it. Now you're kind of stretching him out a bit. From here you could go for a standing type of ankle lock, or achilles hold. Or you could quickly take him into a heel hook position on the mat...either go for a standard heel hook kind of position, or you could step over the leg that is pinned to the ground and go for the heel hook after you pa*s the opposite leg.
Or, if he has one foot down on the ground and is in the sitting guard, you could place one hand on the top of the foot, and put your weight on it...say, your right hand on his left foot for example. Now, in one quick motion, you figure four the ankle/foot in one quick motion and then dive your body over his left leg, all the way to the outside (without hooking the other leg) and roll into an inside toe hold. I've seen this one done by high level people in tournaments a couple of times. Once that figure four is locked it seems pretty secure and you really don't have to bother with hooking the opposite leg. It's faster, pretty secure, and a quick sub.
Here's an original one that i created for a guard pa*s. Since i'm (very) good with arm drags, i've adapted them to the leg. Now if the guy is in the sitting guard with the lead leg bent a little and forward, what you can do is grab high on the calf, by the knee in one very quick powerful motion. Next you quickly pull that leg towards the other leg at about a 45 degree angle. This actually pivots him on his butt as the momentum spins him around. One reason this works is that a natural reaction to the "leg-drag" is to pull your leg back into yourself. This makes the leg stiff enough to be successfully draged........Now, after you have pulled/dragged the leg toward you and the opposite leg at a 45 angle, you actually can go for the side mount right away, or you can kind of roll into him. So if you are dragging with your right arm, you will roll onto him with your left shoulder leading. You roll all the way until you read your stomach. Now you'll be in a high side mount, or in the north/south position. With this last method he has a harder time in getting his inside leg back in to re-gain guard.
Last Edit: Jul 19, 2005 1:50:27 GMT -5 by ArmyOfOne
A "hanging leglock" as you call it, or a rolling toe hold are certainly 2 possibilities. Both have a high success rate.
What I was saying that Gokor does is have his front knee up, directly between his opponents legs and his rear leg on the mat. He stays in tight to the opponents guard. They cant reach around his front leg and body because his leg is in the way. They cant triangle or armbar him due to his front knee. It is frustrating for the bottom guard player. I suppose it's one that is easier shows than typed out though.
fogster...I DON'T have a problem with the guard at all. I have plenty of pa*s moves and leg attacks i can work on when in the guard. Being IN the guard is one thing, being INVITED into the guard is another. At that point you can refuse to go in, you can set up a pa*s, or maybe a leg attack. Question is, if you are trying to set up a pa*s or leg attack which ones work best? Which are high percentage ones that have worked for others? Why just go into a guys guard where he can potentially lock it down and start to work for arm bars, kimuras, triangles (like an eddie bravo type of guard guy) Prior to getting stuck in that position and having to work your way out you need a strategy so that you don't have to go through all that nonsense of breaking the guys guard first, etc. and then trying to set up a pa*s.
i've heard of a lot of guard pa*s techniques and leg attacks in my time. But i've never really heard any instructional DVD or person go into detail on what techniques work well from that position in a tournament when a guy is butt scooting at you, or whatever.
that's true...i guess an agressive move with the knee throw the middle, or to pin down one of his legs, while you use your hand to keep the other knee away is as good a pa*s as any. Simple direct, and right down the pipe. I think speed and agressiveness are the key to that pa*s.
We have been working on that very same problem for quite some time now.
Generally, you should "go in" under your own terms, not theirs, meaning that you position yourself to be able to execute your submission, and possibly a series of fakes, or attack by combination to submit. I want to inspire fear and confusion when I'm there, the guy begins to realize that you may not in fact be trying to pa*s but looking to submit from there. Generally, this puts them to operate under your terms now, and some fear sets in.
I'll try to tape some of these attacks and post them sometime next week if I possible.
In sport BJJ you can't attempt leg locks in competition until the purple belt level. So you better learn to pa*s the guard if you are below that. There is no reason to get upset or frustrated by it. Just get better at pa*sing the guard. It's a win win situation, because you'll just get better at guard pa*sing. Also, it's a sport competition, if you don't like the rules and strategies, don't compete. It's like saying you don't like free throws in basketball or something. Ok, that's fine, but it's part of the game.
My favourite thing to do, any time the guard is open is plant my forearm heavily on one thigh, controlling the leg (to a degree), and preventing the guard from being closed. That gives me the best opportunity to pa*s as well. Once the opportunity is there replace the forearm with your knee/shin of either leg.
Post by DiamondMMA on Aug 13, 2006 18:41:54 GMT -5
I'm not much of a BJJer, but I DO come from a wrestling background... so I'm not certain whether this is just "too" basic for most of you, or whether it'll help some of you. When I'm personally invited into somebody's guard.. lol.. I DON'T like to sit there and reach for legs/ankles, whatever. I just don't like to put my face "in there" so-to-speak for fear of getting kicked, or whatever... I dunno. Every situation is different. So...what works for me is slowly inching up my lead leg, in somewhat of a lower stance. Now, obviously there is a point in which I STOP trying to get so close to them, but I try to get to a position in which I can effectively attack or defend, depending on the situation. Its going to be different for everybody. I might tempt them to kick at my leg if they're trying to kick, , and simply lift or move my leg while maintaining my postion... Sooner or later something is gonna open up. Besides, I seem to like the "constant pressure" of having my leg in their "space". It just gets to some people... They might give up on the kicking game.. and get careless with their leg postion, then you could just test the waters with grabbing or placing your hand/arm somewhere. Then you could use your "drags" or leglocks, or whatever... sometime, somewhere.. something HAS to happen... Let me know if this helps anyone,or anybody has any luck with this...
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